Rocketace.ca  |  DeadEndDays.com  |  Cerealized.com
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
September 10, 2010, 12:10:06 AM
 
Pages: [1]
  Send this topic  |  Print  
Author Topic: MOVIE: Sicko  (Read 768 times)
hairycoo
Rocket Ace Co-Founder
Forum Fanatic
*
Posts: 2450



WWW
« on: June 29, 2007, 06:41:45 PM »

The bell has run and the ring is primed for the flood of Michael Moore lovers and haters alike.

I remember some spirited debate on the forums when Farenheit 9/11 was released. I was more enamoured with Moore then. But 9/11 left me cold. It was such a prime opportunity for a public caning of the Bush administration (minus the last four years of mind-numbing shit), but seemed to devolve into a series of loosely connected pot-shots. Not to mention the perpetual cutaways to photos of the president looking stupid. Not hard to come by, and not compelling debate material. All in all, it seemed like the opportunity was squandered.

In the interim, I've seen enough documentaries to recognize how manipulative Moore is with his work. But then, I'm not sure that is, in and of itself, an issue. If you buy in knowing this is a far more subjective than objective exercise, it's possible to enjoy how masterful his abilities of manipulation are.

I watched Sicko on the internet the other day, and it's powerful. It's agit-prop to be sure, but - again - I don't know that agit-prop is inherently perjorative. Everyone knows the US health care system is fucked (and if anyone wants to dig, Paul Krugman wrote an excellent essay for the New York Review of Books evaluating its shortcomings from an economical perspective - it's got to be on the web somewhere), favouring the profit margins of the insurance providers over the well-being of their customers. Sicko deals not with the 50-odd-million UN-insured Americans (dig the opening credit shot of a man suturing his own gaping knee wound - tasty!), but how the insured are fucked by their insurance providers. It's not only that the system is ineffective, dismissing preventative treatment (which is far more economically feasible in the long run) and rewards insurance employees and doctors for denying patients services, it's not only the absurdity and the death that results from the penny-pinching, but it's the stress of watching people's lives ruined because they get SICK. Moore follows a middle-income couple who are forced to move into their daughter's basement after both are diagnosed with cancer within six months of each other. The financial strain is too much to bear, and the humiliation of their situation is writ large on their sunken faces.

It's impossible to deny that Moore plays fast and loose with "the facts". Glowing portraits of the French, British and Canadian health care systems are given little context, and only anecdotal evidence to support their supposedly inherent superiority. That being said, they are, obviously superior - it's just a shame Moore couldn't break it down more academically. But then, maybe that would be a chink in his folk hero armor. Some of the most poignant details are the least lingered upon, such as when a Canadian mentions that Tommy Douglas was recently voted the Best Canadian (believe this was a MacLean's survey from a few years ago). Something I knew but hadn't thought much about. The man who introduced universal health care to our country is our most revered figure. That's something.

Moore's stunts are no less sensationalistic. I'm sure you've all heard of him boating 9/11 rescue workers suffering respiratory problems to Cuba for treatment - which they receive from a veritable TEAM of Havana doctors. Again, the details are the most striking. A woman discovers that a respirator charge she pays $120 USD for in the States can be bought at a pharmacy in Havana for...five cents. She bursts into tears. So did I.

I loved the film, and it's hard not to root for it's cause. I wonder, of those of you on the forums, if you feel that his methods must fully support his message, or are we willing to cut him some slack because of the potential good this film might do? I think he's a populist, pure and simple, and seeing his documentaries now for what they are, not entirely documentaries, but some mix of documentary film-making and outright manipulative staging, I can accept the shortcomings for the goals, and revel that someone has this much of a podium, and could propel this debate into the limelight as the buildup to the 2008 elections builds steam.

Thoughts, y'all?

Report to moderator   Logged
rp_zachharris
Forum Devotee
**
Posts: 333



« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2007, 08:34:38 PM »

I very much want to see it, but I'm first I'm going to see Ratatouille...wearing a large sweater and dark sunglasses just in case anybody wanders into the wrong theater and notices me.

Then Sicko...I got a torrent that went to 89% and died.
Report to moderator   Logged
Firefox
Administrator
Forum Fanatic
*
Posts: 2255



WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2007, 10:15:14 PM »

I haven't seen it yet. One thing about running loose with the facts is that it may give the other side of an argument "moral permission" to run loose (or continue running lose) with their facts as well. It's kind of like an arms race with lies instead of nukes. Or something.
Report to moderator   Logged
hairycoo
Rocket Ace Co-Founder
Forum Fanatic
*
Posts: 2450



WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2007, 01:11:32 PM »

I don't know if, in this case, it's "loose with the facts" as "willfully ignorant of context" - if you'll permit me a semantic argument. I don't know that Moore states anything that is technically untrue - CNN recently fact-checked the film and, apparently, found no factual flaws or discrepancies (that's the liberal left-wing intelligazi's for you). But I do agree, FF, that this was EXACTLY what backfired with Farenheit 9/11 - Moore gave his opposition ample ammo, and after the firefight died down, it was impossible to tell who, if anyone, had won.

With Sicko, however, we're starting to see what sort of ideological retaliation we're likely in for...ideological retaliation we're likely in for...http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/06/universal-healthcare-terrorist-recruitment-tool
Report to moderator   Logged
Brad
Rocket Ace Co-Founder
Forum Fanatic
*
Posts: 1884



WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2007, 02:04:06 PM »

That's exactly the problem.

Somewhere between "Roger and Me" and "Bowling for Columbine" Michael Moore made documentaries popular (do a quick run of how many docs played in multiplexes prior to "Roger"... and (unfortunately) somewhere in there the American public decided that documentaries are journalisim.

They're not, any more than op-ed or essay is journalisim. They need to apply facts, and truths, but like their written counterparts they are arguments constructed to argue a viewpoint.

However since (somehow) the American populace seems to find them indistinguishable from "news" (which I think says more about the American "news" system than the "documentary" media) it becomes easy to trivialize them with the understanding that they are simply lies.

The problem is that evaluating any opinionated media takes nuance and consideration, something that the general public (worldwide, I'm not America-bashing here) seems reluctant to do. Does Michael Moore often hold up other countries (especially Canada) on a pedistal of non-critical perfection? Yeah, absolutely. But he's not structuring his argument to be of benefit to Canada... he's trying to make a comparison with American systems, and I don't think (especially with Health care) that there's anyone out there who doesn't think the system is seriously messed up.

Report to moderator   Logged
Unimarnense
Forum Newbie

Posts: 9

depo provera side effects in teenagers


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2010, 12:38:10 PM »

test female testosterone level http://webtechinfo.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9463.new
discount supply home ortho http://forum.caromeble.pl/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3345
ativan buy online no rx http://www.theripleyfamily.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124556
diclofenac voltaren drops for dogs http://www.altyn-almas.kz/forum1/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24623
allegra sinclair north carolina http://www.phototraining.com.ua/forum/index.php?showtopic=32678
ranch jobs in Somerset, WI http://career-builder.appspot.com/ranch/Somerset,%20WI/
cheap 37 5 phentermine rx http://forum.fatihsoydan.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17061
amoxicillin for ear infections http://www.holdemadvice.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13884
soma silk massage cream austin tx http://www.bathandbodysolutions.com/forums/showthread.php?p=37235
side effects of medroxyprogesterone http://www.1896mauser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=74384
men seeking for men in Reinerton-Orwin-Muir, PA http://seeking-for.appspot.com/M/M/Reinerton-Orwin-Muir,%20PA/
end stage arthritis of knee http://www.wh.pchanpage.de/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10980
aldara online pharmacy zyrtec http://tubesiteratings.com/forum/index.php?topic=9976.new
severe joint pain psoriatic arthritis http://www.gamersroundtable.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=27079
reglan syrup cat constipation http://www.teamtogrow.com/social/forums/index.php?topic=45348.new
flesh eating disease name http://feedker.com/q/flesh%20eating%20disease%20name/
lexapro sperm dna damage http://www.photosocieties.com/index.php?topic=6153.new
ortho phosphate cas number http://forum.sushicat.ee/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=186073
cialis online online pharmacy http://astro-homo.ru/astroforum/index.php?topic=43247.new
vytorin is the strongest cholesterol medication http://www.tutumainmain.com/showthread.php?p=68974
estrogen birth defects male http://www.lancasterbiology.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24328
mexican pharmacies carrying accutane http://embtest.fwg.hk/emb/smf/index.php?topic=8761.new
women looking for men in East Side, PA http://looking-for.appspot.com/F/M/East%20Side,%20PA/
no prescription needed for codeine http://www.vsekino.com.ua/showthread.php?p=40029
kidney stone tylenol with codene pain http://www.inzante.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=64931
treatment with ampicillin bactrim and cipro http://game-journal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=51336
does phentermine cause depression http://www.mityoga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12769
winter sonata animation rar download http://www.klikmytime.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60164
canine prescription drug metronidazole http://syvid.com/smf/index.php?topic=73920.new
wellbutrin interferes with tramdol http://businessmenhub.com/showthread.php?p=48401
cold turkey from hydrocodone http://193.239.192.227/ZonesForum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29405
slow movement moonlight sonata http://forum.motosaratov.ru/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51475
tadalafil and pulmonary hypertension http://f2pmmowelt.mmobb.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=165
anti-phospholipid syndrome and arthritis http://www.joluskitchen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82427
http://letitlibrary.com/q/%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%20%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B2%20%D0%BA%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B8%20%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE/
buy ambien no rx http://parlonspilates.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=317
plavix and tylenol vs advil http://www.fkanorway.org/fkaforum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22196
buy dreampharmaceuticals online propecia http://frozen-entertainment.freehostia.com/anime/forum/index.php?topic=1270.new
herbal substitutes for viagra http://www.semper-fidelis.at/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=62898
pictures of paxil rash http://sabbathobserver.org/SabbathObserver_Community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32436
women seeking for men in Waterford North, WI http://seeking-for.appspot.com/F/M/Waterford%20North,%20WI/
generic cialis tadalafil price comparison http://grindhouse-wow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32892
http://letitlibrary.com/q/%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%20%D0%B8%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%83%20%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%B8/
rheumatoid arthritis and vitamin d defieiency http://www.digital-action.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31337
combining valium with ecstasy http://www.nissancubeforums.com/index.php?topic=8407.new
indiana chapter arthritis foundation http://www.toplesslawngnomecult.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7713
men looking for women in Laredo, MO http://looking-for.appspot.com/M/F/Laredo,%20MO/
what is phentermine hcl http://mercadova.com/foro/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6991
methotrexate drug side ef http://www.rebelscooters.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2045
erythromycin cross resistant macrolide and http://www.cybersurgeon.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=250416
clarinex allegra alesse valtrex http://forum.lion-patriots.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5226
see arthritis on bonescan http://www.swbot.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=229001
hydrocodone in drug screening http://www.foroalgeciras.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=861
depro provera horror stories thyroid http://www.adornosprecision.net/portal/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43620
brand name for acetaminophen http://www.my-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=329459&mforum=yuanlovegod
bactrim and user 0 and http://www.nhp.ac.th/forum/index.php?topic=27261.new
beethoven sonata 23 ii http://muzkat.com.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42288
beethoven sonata midnight casa fantisa http://forum.telenovelastories.tv/index.php?topic=135713.new
list of caffeine free pop http://tloc.flashtronauts.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8493
http://letitlibrary.com/q/microsoft%20visual%20basic/
ranitidine what is it used for http://forum.freegameportal.ru/viewtopic.php?pid=29296
ibuprofen after partial knee replacement http://bentleygrafix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42680
action celebrex class lawyer http://www.turhalaimder.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14840
hydrocodone app 5 500 http://www.witthat.com/i/whatsup/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=277691
rogers i wanna be your man http://feedker.com/q/rogers%20i%20wanna%20be%20your%20man/
thomas the tank engine plastic toys http://feedker.com/q/thomas%20the%20tank%20engine%20plastic%20toys/
liquid glucosamine arthritis treatment liquid glucosamine http://2008.snkcr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17290
ankle surgery plate arthritis http://www.pocketdog.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77280
canadian arthritis society dog arthritis arthritis http://pohiparent.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=131059
lexapro during first trimester of pregnancy http://www.eltiempo.com.pe/Foro/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1079
syphilis dose of penicillin http://datadoctorz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23934
ortho biotech usa pharmaceuticals plant texas http://playing.uv.ro/forum/viewtopic.php?p=144529
caffeine potency compared to amphetamine http://visitkastamonu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=533403
recreational use for lunesta http://skamaniademocrats.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=92423
prednisone side effects treating http://www.picabiela.com/pedreguerparty/rfactor/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2614
pictures of most beautiful woman http://feedker.com/q/pictures%20of%20most%20beautiful%20woman/
listen to children christmas music http://feedker.com/q/listen%20to%20children%20christmas%20music/
information about lamictal in korean http://www.nepaldj.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9497
cracking knuckles really cause arthritis http://e-investhost.com/topic771.html
men seeking for women in McConnelsville, OH http://seeking-for.appspot.com/M/F/McConnelsville,%20OH/
tamoxifen and brain tumors in 2007 http://www.100escolha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4371
generic cialis pills no prescription canada http://keren.poker-boys.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=175861
women seeking for men in Silver Lake, WI http://seeking-for.appspot.com/F/M/Silver%20Lake,%20WI/
brand name for sertraline http://61.19.54.137/misterwarning/mrwboard/index.php?topic=14421.new
women looking for men in Lowry, SD http://looking-for.appspot.com/F/M/Lowry,%20SD/
erythromycin dosage for cats http://bestseonews.com/index.php?topic=70848.new
safety jobs in Glen Lyon, PA http://career-builder.appspot.com/safety/Glen%20Lyon,%20PA/
http://letitlibrary.com/q/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BC%D1%83%20%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%20%D0%BB%D0%B6%D0%B8/
amount of progestin in enpresse http://www.andreafarina.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11519
mebendazole or albendazole antiparasitic medication http://www.onebigsecret.net/sal/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=34030
rheumatoid arthritis lupus connection http://www.rackear.com.ar/foro/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1232
how long does testosterone last http://e-media-online.com/France_Japon/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12386
fedex overnight generic ambien http://www.fcco.com.vn/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11749
hyundai sonata lease massachusetts http://sectord.de/sg/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20255
diphenyl ether ortho para directing activator http://engineer.nisit.kps.ku.ac.th/board/index.php?topic=33613.new
glucophage for losing weight http://www.womenareinferior.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59268
poulenc flute sonata 2nd movement http://www.parksart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3003
hydrocodone no prescription overnight fedex http://www.joeyq.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=64067
tadafil cialis on-line pharmacies http://www.countrygardener.co.uk/distribution/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15661
effects on propranolol and sports http://www.vietnamguiden.se/forum/index.php?topic=32703.new
best book about arthritis http://saigonradio890am.com/forum/index.php?topic=54919.new
men looking for women in Greenville, TX http://looking-for.appspot.com/M/F/Greenville,%20TX/
physiological symptoms of hydrocodone withdrawal http://www.gigabytehd.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=157809
federal jobs in Berlin, PA http://career-builder.appspot.com/federal/Berlin,%20PA/
beethoven's moonlight sonata piano http://www.uckn.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=126835
betamethasone valerate childs growth http://www.mylightingforum.com/showthread.php?p=82043
customer service jobs in Crandon, WI http://career-builder.appspot.com/customer%20service/Crandon,%20WI/
women looking for men in Pleasanton, KS http://looking-for.appspot.com/F/M/Pleasanton,%20KS/
alternative to celebrex if sulfa allergic http://www.plasticosmetales.com/foro/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=271
testosterone vs free testosterone level http://www.dive-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23758
1 11 89 nexium http://chicagosportsnetwork.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14315
http://letitlibrary.com/q/%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%BE%20%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8B%20%D0%B4%D0%BB%D1%8F%20sony%20ericsson%20w610i/
taking mylanta before surgery http://www.dfwsbp.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15868
on provera 10mg day years http://morali.net/forum/index.php/topic,36521.new.html
citalopram withdrawl cold turkey http://www.7figurenetworkerkit.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63352
dosage of amoxicillin 49 pounds http://www.art-bazar.ru/forum/showthread.php?p=491
transportation jobs in Enumclaw, WA http://career-builder.appspot.com/transportation/Enumclaw,%20WA/
stanozolol manufacturing process directions http://www.holibang.com/english/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10712
reglan and neuroleptic malignant syndrome http://www.insight-web.com/hybrid_energy_forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26970
car arthritis medicine comedy nintendo http://publicskincareforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=312890
prednisone and lung conditions http://tatu-pictures.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=18022
350mgpop3ru 350mgpop3ru carisoprodol carisoprodol site http://scamrating.com/flag/index.php/topic,1201.new.html
women seeking for men in Viking, MN http://seeking-for.appspot.com/F/M/Viking,%20MN/
discreet antabuse online consultation http://www.rrpowerplan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=235893
buy phentermine no prescription required http://www.voleytenerifesur.com/upload/showthread.php?p=39092
Report to moderator   Logged

depo provera side effects in teenagers
Pages: [1]
  Send this topic  |  Print  
 
Jump to: